Calm Down, Put Away The Bible...
5.10.2005
Let me say first that I respect folks who are dedicated to their religions whole heartedly. I think it's great. In a world (or, more appropriately, NATION) that hasn't left us with a whole lot to make us feel "comfort," those who believe in their creators always can come back to that.
The thing is, there's no "book" ("good" or otherwise...) that is going to be a definitive source for all things.
It's not just Christianity that I feel has flaws, it's other religions like Mormon, Muslim, etc... there really isn't a singular source for "what is right" in my opinion. Your way of thinking seems to be that the christian bible is 'bout as good as it gets. Cool. I would advise you of the mass similarities - aside from some verbiage/language barriers. If you've spent time with the Kuran/Koran/Quran (depends on what part of the world you live in to obtain the spelling) or studying what makes the folks who are Muslim tick, you might be surprised to find that they too believe in GOD, that they're a peace loving people. Much like what the picture of a true Christian is painted to be.
It's the extremists that ruin it for everyone. The extremists and the spin system in place that keeps them going - and arguably perpetuates their continuance and growth. Ask a typical man or woman off the streets of mainstream Amerika, and I'm very certain you'll find that they have not the first clue of how true Muslim religion works. That NOT ALL Muslims are planning on flying planes into the WTC again... See, the gross incompetence/catering to the rich/sociopolitical "leaders" of our country, perpetuates hatred on a mass scale. Interestingly, most of the folks "in charge" here in the states practice some religion other than Muslim or Buddhism or Atheism or... When the "powers that be" are predominantly "home grown" and White, Christian, Male...it's got to be pretty easy to create not only hatred, but negative propaganda (ie: "fair and balanced" news sources in the mainstream media, advertising, consumerism, etc...) which perpepuates its very existence.
Are we by nature a negative country? Absolutely. Are we the most feared country worldwide? You bet. Are the docile masses in this country willing to go along with it because the Red White & Blue (of either the flag or the Pabst Can, time will tell what really decides...sarcasm there...stay with me...) says so? OH HELL YEAH!!!
Sigh.
So where does the role of Christianity come in to play in all this? The fact that Christians seem to feel as well, that the Bible is the definitive source for all things "right". It can't be. Regardless of how wholesome it may be, there are two sides to every story. I've seen selected bible quotes before. Touting what would jc do... what has god ordained... etc... What's interesting is that the other side of the argument is never presented. Would the Christian god advise us to truly follow "an eye for an eye"? Is that what our civilization should be? Killing people for crimes, killing people for revenge for accidental occurences? Wow. There's a reason why I can't get down. Death Penalty advocates? Mostly Christian. Who are we to take a life from someone just because they've done so. A lifetime of contemplation, perhaps even in solitary confinement for long periods of time? Sure. Getting help for these same "criminals"? Absolutely and without a doubt. Forgiveness. Not SELECTIVELY so, either. Christians are supposed to "forgive" because ol' JC died for our sins. Right? Yet, how can murdering someone who has already murdered be "right"?
The bible also tends to read at times like a New York Times Fiction (appropriately so?) Bestseller: replete with chapters of incest, rape, murder, bigotry, hatred, polygamy. It's all there. From Genesis to Deuteronomy and all points after and between. I know, I know. I'm "picking" on the bible and/or Christianity. The thing is, it's important to see all sides of ANY compelling (or even not so) argument, story, religion. The PROBLEM lies in the search for something to cling to as definitive without making the "something" EARN its place as such. How many so called Christians these days go to the bar on Saturday night, flirt or shack up with someone other than their spouse; cuss and swear (blasphemers!!) and take "the lord's name in vain" all week long, only to go to church on Sunday morning (or Saturday night BEFORE "the debauchery" takes place ;)) and make it all better by injecting an hour's worth of guilt and apology?
Even our "founding fathers" and "great" men like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington (admittedly, slave owners and adulterers...) have put forth quotes about how religion (in their cases Christianity) ends up being more of a hindrance to the evolution of society. Here's a few of my favorites that a close friend and “brother" of mine has shown me recently:
George Washington:
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
- letter to Edward Newenham, 1792
Thomas Jefferson:
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816
"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself."
- letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
There have been bloody Christian crusades, there was much Native American blood shed during the "founding" of this country. What of those folks? "Savages" because they were a nature loving, contented people who were quite literally raped and pillaged as the almighty dollar reared its head even early on disguised as a break from "tyranny" (religious and social) put forth by The King? Sound familiar?
Christianity, Islam, Mormon. ANY religion that "allows" or at least "advises" the use of force to coerce folks to the "right" way of thinking is not without fault. That's not to say that all who follow these religions - or even the texts which have been accepted to comprise the teachings - are totally wrong. There are certainly aspects that seem to fall in line with anyone with half a brain or sense of love of life in their being.
When I referred to common sense, I was opening up the opportunity to bury myself. Talking as much as I do about "no absolutes", one might say to me, "how can there exist a TRUE Common Sense based on your way of thinking?" I would say "Touche." But also, admit that there ISN'T. However, whomever/however created we were/are there is a true in-grained sense of treating our fellow man, animal, plant, air, water (have I missed anything?) with the utmost respect. I'm not advocating any religion or theology as being better than any other. Period. The one that makes the most sense TO ME... Is a simple "Native American Code Of Ethics" which states, in a nutshell, to respect and HONOR LIFE. A basic example: if you kill a plant for food...say a quick thank you to it for helping you and your body and your health - and that of your family - to continue. I would daresay that most folks would deign that to be "extreme" or at the very least "semi-retarded" and pass it off with a chuckle. I wouldn't. I'd respect it. I think it's perfect - or at least as close to it as possible.
I believe that there is a creator of our existence. I also believe that if it's preordained that we are to believe (no matter what our "affiliation") that our creator is a sort of mirror image of ourselves, that IMPERFECTIONS do exist. The Creator to me represents a power that put us here to do good, to learn, to educate, to explore not just within - but ESPECIALLY OUT OF our comfort zones. To learn about those we disagree with. To love everyone regardless of their attitudes and beliefs.
To that end, am I sometimes angry at the world around me? You're fucking right. But, what may be construed as "anger" is most likely frustration to the max of watching folks exist in a sea of complacency. I'm not down with that.
As I continue to live and laugh and love in this world, attempting to steer through the propaganda that permeates our daily existence from television, radio, movie screens, etc, I find it difficult to rise above at times. But, I will at the very least make every effort to keep open the minds of my family, friends and especially my children. To follow my beliefs - not ordained by any religious propaganda or writing - but by the work I put forth into exploring, researching, questioning, reasoning. Offering MPVS (My Personal Value System) to those closest to me. Not expecting anything other than a quick listen. That's all.
Without absolutes. Without a "right" or a "wrong". Just Common Sense.
Let me say first that I respect folks who are dedicated to their religions whole heartedly. I think it's great. In a world (or, more appropriately, NATION) that hasn't left us with a whole lot to make us feel "comfort," those who believe in their creators always can come back to that.
The thing is, there's no "book" ("good" or otherwise...) that is going to be a definitive source for all things.
It's not just Christianity that I feel has flaws, it's other religions like Mormon, Muslim, etc... there really isn't a singular source for "what is right" in my opinion. Your way of thinking seems to be that the christian bible is 'bout as good as it gets. Cool. I would advise you of the mass similarities - aside from some verbiage/language barriers. If you've spent time with the Kuran/Koran/Quran (depends on what part of the world you live in to obtain the spelling) or studying what makes the folks who are Muslim tick, you might be surprised to find that they too believe in GOD, that they're a peace loving people. Much like what the picture of a true Christian is painted to be.
It's the extremists that ruin it for everyone. The extremists and the spin system in place that keeps them going - and arguably perpetuates their continuance and growth. Ask a typical man or woman off the streets of mainstream Amerika, and I'm very certain you'll find that they have not the first clue of how true Muslim religion works. That NOT ALL Muslims are planning on flying planes into the WTC again... See, the gross incompetence/catering to the rich/sociopolitical "leaders" of our country, perpetuates hatred on a mass scale. Interestingly, most of the folks "in charge" here in the states practice some religion other than Muslim or Buddhism or Atheism or... When the "powers that be" are predominantly "home grown" and White, Christian, Male...it's got to be pretty easy to create not only hatred, but negative propaganda (ie: "fair and balanced" news sources in the mainstream media, advertising, consumerism, etc...) which perpepuates its very existence.
Are we by nature a negative country? Absolutely. Are we the most feared country worldwide? You bet. Are the docile masses in this country willing to go along with it because the Red White & Blue (of either the flag or the Pabst Can, time will tell what really decides...sarcasm there...stay with me...) says so? OH HELL YEAH!!!
Sigh.
So where does the role of Christianity come in to play in all this? The fact that Christians seem to feel as well, that the Bible is the definitive source for all things "right". It can't be. Regardless of how wholesome it may be, there are two sides to every story. I've seen selected bible quotes before. Touting what would jc do... what has god ordained... etc... What's interesting is that the other side of the argument is never presented. Would the Christian god advise us to truly follow "an eye for an eye"? Is that what our civilization should be? Killing people for crimes, killing people for revenge for accidental occurences? Wow. There's a reason why I can't get down. Death Penalty advocates? Mostly Christian. Who are we to take a life from someone just because they've done so. A lifetime of contemplation, perhaps even in solitary confinement for long periods of time? Sure. Getting help for these same "criminals"? Absolutely and without a doubt. Forgiveness. Not SELECTIVELY so, either. Christians are supposed to "forgive" because ol' JC died for our sins. Right? Yet, how can murdering someone who has already murdered be "right"?
The bible also tends to read at times like a New York Times Fiction (appropriately so?) Bestseller: replete with chapters of incest, rape, murder, bigotry, hatred, polygamy. It's all there. From Genesis to Deuteronomy and all points after and between. I know, I know. I'm "picking" on the bible and/or Christianity. The thing is, it's important to see all sides of ANY compelling (or even not so) argument, story, religion. The PROBLEM lies in the search for something to cling to as definitive without making the "something" EARN its place as such. How many so called Christians these days go to the bar on Saturday night, flirt or shack up with someone other than their spouse; cuss and swear (blasphemers!!) and take "the lord's name in vain" all week long, only to go to church on Sunday morning (or Saturday night BEFORE "the debauchery" takes place ;)) and make it all better by injecting an hour's worth of guilt and apology?
Even our "founding fathers" and "great" men like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington (admittedly, slave owners and adulterers...) have put forth quotes about how religion (in their cases Christianity) ends up being more of a hindrance to the evolution of society. Here's a few of my favorites that a close friend and “brother" of mine has shown me recently:
George Washington:
"Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by the difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be depreciated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society."
- letter to Edward Newenham, 1792
Thomas Jefferson:
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - "Notes on Virginia"
"On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
- to Carey, 1816
"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself."
- letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
There have been bloody Christian crusades, there was much Native American blood shed during the "founding" of this country. What of those folks? "Savages" because they were a nature loving, contented people who were quite literally raped and pillaged as the almighty dollar reared its head even early on disguised as a break from "tyranny" (religious and social) put forth by The King? Sound familiar?
Christianity, Islam, Mormon. ANY religion that "allows" or at least "advises" the use of force to coerce folks to the "right" way of thinking is not without fault. That's not to say that all who follow these religions - or even the texts which have been accepted to comprise the teachings - are totally wrong. There are certainly aspects that seem to fall in line with anyone with half a brain or sense of love of life in their being.
When I referred to common sense, I was opening up the opportunity to bury myself. Talking as much as I do about "no absolutes", one might say to me, "how can there exist a TRUE Common Sense based on your way of thinking?" I would say "Touche." But also, admit that there ISN'T. However, whomever/however created we were/are there is a true in-grained sense of treating our fellow man, animal, plant, air, water (have I missed anything?) with the utmost respect. I'm not advocating any religion or theology as being better than any other. Period. The one that makes the most sense TO ME... Is a simple "Native American Code Of Ethics" which states, in a nutshell, to respect and HONOR LIFE. A basic example: if you kill a plant for food...say a quick thank you to it for helping you and your body and your health - and that of your family - to continue. I would daresay that most folks would deign that to be "extreme" or at the very least "semi-retarded" and pass it off with a chuckle. I wouldn't. I'd respect it. I think it's perfect - or at least as close to it as possible.
I believe that there is a creator of our existence. I also believe that if it's preordained that we are to believe (no matter what our "affiliation") that our creator is a sort of mirror image of ourselves, that IMPERFECTIONS do exist. The Creator to me represents a power that put us here to do good, to learn, to educate, to explore not just within - but ESPECIALLY OUT OF our comfort zones. To learn about those we disagree with. To love everyone regardless of their attitudes and beliefs.
To that end, am I sometimes angry at the world around me? You're fucking right. But, what may be construed as "anger" is most likely frustration to the max of watching folks exist in a sea of complacency. I'm not down with that.
As I continue to live and laugh and love in this world, attempting to steer through the propaganda that permeates our daily existence from television, radio, movie screens, etc, I find it difficult to rise above at times. But, I will at the very least make every effort to keep open the minds of my family, friends and especially my children. To follow my beliefs - not ordained by any religious propaganda or writing - but by the work I put forth into exploring, researching, questioning, reasoning. Offering MPVS (My Personal Value System) to those closest to me. Not expecting anything other than a quick listen. That's all.
Without absolutes. Without a "right" or a "wrong". Just Common Sense.
posted by swg11871 at 7:58 AM
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